SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
For more on last night's vote to avoid a government shutdown, we're joined by Congressman Dusty Johnson. The South Dakota Republican voted in favor of funding the government all three times this week. Congressman, thanks for being with us.
DUSTY JOHNSON: Absolutely, thanks.
SIMON: It still came very close to not passing. Why was it so precarious?
JOHNSON: Well, first off, this is a town where it really takes deadlines to drive achievements. It's one of the most maddening things about this town. But everybody thinks they're a power negotiator. Everybody believes that if they hold out just a little bit longer, they can extract just one more pound of flesh. And it means that we generally get our work done, but it is very messy. And I know it's a lot - it's very frustrating for America - and for me, as well.
SIMON: Yeah. Were President-elect Trump and Elon Musk helpful?
JOHNSON: They are - yes. Yes, on the whole, they were. I mean, I think we got a much better deal at the end of the week than we had in the middle of the week. Now, clearly, these are two gentlemen who have unorthodox negotiating styles. That can cause a few bumps in the road. But you're also dealing with people that are brilliant and have strong ideas about what America should look like going forward. And so, yeah. Listen, clearly, we had a better deal at the end of the week than we did when we started it.
SIMON: Thirty-eight Republican House members - your colleagues - voted against what Donald Trump wanted, to suspend the debt limit. Should he take some kind of lesson from this?
JOHNSON: Only what he already knows, and that is that - and Americans have a tendency, I think, because we're in such a highly polarized time, to view the parties as monoliths. It is not just House Republicans and House Democrats. It's 435 people with pretty strongly held opinions and world views that don't change on the whim just because one person makes an argument or another person posts something. We are a deeply divided country, and we're a deeply divided Congress. Again, that sometimes makes it hard to pull together an agreement.
SIMON: Well, should this, though, serve as a reminder to President-elect Trump, that although his party might have a majority in Congress, it's not automatic? He still has some members of his own party that he has to pull over the line.
JOHNSON: Yes. That is - I think he's acutely aware of that. But this is another nice reminder that we are going to have some successes in the 119th. We're going to do all the things that he promised America we're going to do. And yet, it might not happen on the timeline or in the manner that he or any of us would like.
SIMON: And, of course, the Republican majority in the House in 2025 is even tighter. You folks have to elect a speaker. Is Speaker Mike Johnson your choice? Are the prospects for him good?
JOHNSON: The prospects for Mike Johnson are good. Now, remember, I mean, it is hard for anybody to have a 99% approval rating within their club. That's really what he needs to be able to be elected speaker. He's going to get there. Most people realize what an incredibly difficult situation this was this week. He's got a lot of people who expect that he'll deliver a 90-10 win in an environment where he doesn't have a Democratic Senate; he doesn't have a Democratic White House. And so anytime you get above 50-50 in that situation, you're actually a master negotiator. It isn't always pretty in the final days, but Mike Johnson really delivered a big win.
SIMON: What do you make of the fact that Steve Bannon - who needs no introduction - says of Speaker Johnson, he has to go?
JOHNSON: Well, Steve Bannon has - I mean, that's - he's a provocateur, right? He's a professional pot stirrer, and society likes having people like that, I think, queue up discussions with strong opinions. It's often said that one has to - that you campaign in poetry, and you govern in prose. And I would suggest that perhaps Steve Bannon speaks a little bit more in poetry than those of us who actually have to go deliver wins.
SIMON: We have left you just about 45 seconds to tell us what your constituents in South Dakota say they want from the U.S. government in 2025.
JOHNSON: They want a secure border. They want us to stop spending so that inflation can come under control, and they would like government to get more efficient and more responsive. They're pretty excited about DOGE, I'll tell you that.
SIMON: Dusty Johnson, a Republican representative from South Dakota. Congressman, thank you for joining us.
JOHNSON: Thanks much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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